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Michaela Light (00:01):
Welcome back to the show. I'm here with Joby John from tech Versant and we're going to be talking about the business side of cold fusion and new trends in cold fusion. Um, welcome to the show. Joby. Hi Micheala and uh, just in case you don't know him. Um, he is CEO of tech first and Infotech and he, they have 200 people working there. They're a consulting firm that specializes in cold fusion and they're based in Corolla, India and Alberta, Canada. So, um, he's a young vibrant guy. Um, I met him at CF summit, India, um, end of last year and he's got a lot of interesting ideas around cold fusion. So, uh, let's maybe, um, start off by talking about hiring ColdFusion developers cause I know that's a topic of interest to both managers and coffee from developers. You know, what, what have you seen trend wise? Um, you know, hiring ColdFusion developers? Yeah. As you know,
Joby John (01:04):
base is not that great in Confucian even in India. But we, we always run a recruitment program throughout the year, like interviewing more people, always try to find more people because our customers need more cultivation developers. So, and another thing is that we used to have people who are interested to learn confusion, like having them from PHP or not and train them in cognition. Another thing is like we always hire like 10, 15 people, maybe sometimes 20 people from the college and train them in cultivation. So after like one to two years, like in a one year time they will be able to work on cold fusion projects from there. So we started doing it from uh, 2011. We started having people from college and also and now we were able to grow the team from there were very good number of team members in college.
Michaela Light (02:00):
How many ColdFusion developers do you have in the company then?
Joby John (02:04):
Uh, we have like almost 50% age of the team. Science is in cold fusion and the business side of it, like, uh, now we are into some other technologies, but two confusion was the technology that we focused from the start and the first customers was, uh, Wester was in cold fusion. And then from there we use, uh, focus more on the ColdFusion platform. So then we got a lot of customers and we are happy. The customers are still with us and every year we are adding few customers every year in costs.
Michaela Light (02:35):
Hmm. Well, it's great to hear that you're growing. Um, I, you know, when I was at the CFO summit, India, I think you had, um, maybe 15 or 20 people attending that. And then, um, I saw a photo on your Facebook page of like, I think it was a Christmas celebration or maybe it was some other Indian holiday, but you had all the team together and it was like this enormous photo. Yeah, it's, it
Joby John (03:00):
was our annual meet last year.
Michaela Light (03:04):
So why do you find it easy to train college graduates in cold fusion?
Joby John (03:12):
Uh, it's about the people. We find the, if they are technically good, it's very easy for them to learn corporate. It's not a very hard language to learn. It's about the people. If we can find the right people, they can learn it and uh, like, uh, we find that they feel if we train them, we can mold them to the level we want. So we always try to, that our best people are or of the people we train in our company.
Michaela Light (03:39):
What kind of characteristics do you look for when you're hiring them?
Joby John (03:44):
Uh, as of like the attitude of the person matters a lot. Like the problem solving skill, the technical capability. But at the end of the day, if they have the attitude of like they want to be successful and they want to learn new things, that matters a lot.
Michaela Light (04:03):
Yeah. I mean, I've often heard it said you can teach skills, but attitude is a little harder to change in someone.
Joby John (04:10):
Yeah. Yeah. That's perfectly.
Michaela Light (04:15):
So, um, do you use any particular, uh, you know, uh, tools for people learning cold fusion like you use learn, see if in a week for an example or some other,
Joby John (04:31):
Michaela Light (05:13):
And then do you find a, any universities or colleges in India, uh, takes people in cold fusion?
Joby John (05:22):
No, I don't think there is anywhere. Any colleges. Uh, I never find it.
Michaela Light (05:27):
Yeah. I mean in the United States, I think there's a handful out of 4,000. Um, do you think it would be good if, if there were more college classes in cold fusion?
Joby John (05:38):
Definitely that will, that will attract more people to look for, uh, the contribution they want to come to the confusion because when we talk to the people in the college, they are like, most people are like hearing it for the first time in India, the competition is not that popular amongst the, we always talk to and we talk to the attaway people, like a, the steps they should make to make it popular among the, the French people. Um, give them some, uh, like, uh, courses or whatever in the college itself. So they will be interested to work in ColdFusion in the future.
Michaela Light (06:15):
[inaudible] yeah, I think that would be great. Both for colleges and even high school. You know, some people will learn to program in high school these days. Yeah. And of course the cold fusion software for, for students learning and for professors teaching them, that's both free. Um, so, um, maybe there just needs to be, uh, some like extra help for colleges, uh, to try it out or, or even for people if, if people listening have a college near you or it's a two year college, four year college, you know, I've, I've heard of other coffee and developers who just volunteer, you know, become an adjunct professor. I think they get paid for it, but not, not professors don't get paid that much, but you know, it just helps to teach people a ColdFusion of get them into it young. So
Joby John (07:10):
we are doing something like that. We are planning to do, we have some plans. Yeah. Like you help some companies doing some internship in cultivation. So sometimes students come to us for internship project. So we have a plan. We didn't implement it till now, but we have something in mind.
Michaela Light (07:33):
That's great. Um, I, I think you need a Pat on the back public recognition that you, you know, you're giving back by helping people, uh, learn ColdFusion, uh, through internships. And you know, if there's a, I'm guessing this university and Corolla as well. Um, if there's any way to get cold fusion, uh, into classes there, that, that would be fabulous. Um,
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Michaela Light (08:00):
do you staff use the, you know, fusion 2018 or, um, various versions or what, what versions get used these days?
Joby John (08:11):
Uh, 2018, uh, very few customers. The previous version, it's more, most customers are using now. Some people are now migrating to the 2018. So we have like, uh, sometimes we get video older versions as well. Then it's like some applications and then stay migrate. Some customers prefer to be in that, the old, they just want small tweaks and changes. So we usually work with many,
Speaker 3 (08:39):
uh, lotions of fat. No.
Michaela Light (08:43):
So then some of these are legacy apps that have been around for awhile and they're in college or even earlier. Yeah.
Joby John (08:53):
Michaela Light (08:57):
Um, why, why do you think people don't, um, go to the latest version? I mean, Twitch coffee's in 2018 has been now nearly two years now. I mean, I know that when a release first comes out, sometimes people are a bit nervous. Maybe there'll be a, you know, a buck in it. Oh, I think Adobe does a great job of, of quality assurance on, on the software. I mean there aren't that many issues with new releases, but you know, once it's been out for six months they've had some hot fixes. It's pretty sure that it's going to be okay. All right. Well, what do you think holds people back from using the latest release?
Joby John (09:31):
Uh, I think based on the business route come and like, uh, if they, like some customers have like, uh, you understand some less businesses, they don't want to add the cost of migrating. Maybe. I think cost is a factor sometimes and sometimes they will be like, uh, they're afraid that the version changes will add up a lot of work. Like some changes maybe that,
Michaela Light (09:58):
have you seen that to be the case in practice when people upgrade to a newer version that it takes?
Joby John (10:04):
Yeah, sometimes it takes like some application needs, some rework, like something, it add up some work. But like the customers I see, they don't, uh, migrated at six months. What I see is like in a one year, two year time, they are migrating to them.
Michaela Light (10:23):
I mean I have seen some migrations where it takes a lot of time if they use, you know, if the code uses some features that are a bit unusual. But I think, um, standard apps chairman, he migrate pretty easily.
Joby John (10:38):
Yes. I say understand maybe because they through the years a lot of code is there too. They're a little bit afraid that it might cause them migrating. But like, uh, who ha who have to upgrade, they usually do it in one year to two year time. What we see from our customer.
Michaela Light (11:01):
Well that, that makes sense. Um, I mean one of the advantages I've seen in, in migrations is it just everything runs a lot faster. And in 2018 have you seen that in practice on the projects you've had?
Joby John (11:16):
Michaela Light (11:20):
the, uh, the code runs faster on own 2018?
Joby John (11:25):
Uh, yeah, yes. Uh, we see it like when we migrate, they have, uh, the system performance and everything improves. So that's one of the main reason they are, uh, migrating to the newer versions and uh, and also for the security people. Cause some customers are concerned about that.
Michaela Light (11:46):
Well, given how security is these days and number of hackers out there and even cyber warfare going on between countries paying attention, security's pretty important. And this is something where cold fusion is definitely ahead of bar the languages much more secure than um, most of the languages for according to seat.
Joby John (12:08):
Very few, uh, secretary issues we saw in the, we are working for like our own 10 years in ColdFusion. They did few cases. There were security problems with our customers.
Michaela Light (12:24):
Yeah. I'll put a link in the show notes, um, about coefficient security by, it was a graph we made that shows how cold fusion has a lot fewer security instance than other languages. So yeah. And I think that's important for a lot of enterprise and government customers who use cold fusion. Um, that is key.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Michaela Light (12:49):
So maybe we can talk a bit about, um, you know, scaling up, um, a team that that's something you, you work on where you know, a customer needs to have more people working on a project. How does that, how have you seen that change over the last few years?
Joby John (13:09):
So you liked the, the, the bigger customers. Sometimes they have a sudden requirement, like they want to add one of our customer. Now, like last day they want to add $5 pools immediately for the, uh, the [inaudible]. But the thing is that, uh, not much companies have, like, they won't be able to find people or maybe sometimes, uh, it's very hard for them to find people in a short time. So what we always try to do is that we always have like the yearly, the training make people ready so that there is a requirement they can come up and work on that. So it doesn't make us like, and we don't have like a longterm community if they want for six months or one year, we give them the flexible team. So such options if they're available in other technologies, if there are a lot of developers available, it can, it can, it is very easy. So we have customers to do that. The scale up, uh, the team size, and then they can also scale down if they don't want
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Joby John (14:16):
It's, uh, uh, it's all because of the, the like, uh, we have the people, we make the people ready,
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Joby John (14:26):
but we see a lot of companies like in last two, three years they like a double or even triple the team size.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Michaela Light (14:38):
That's quite a big growth, uh, in, in team size. How do they deal with that? Because I mean when you double a team, the amount of communication required can increase the art.
Joby John (14:49):
Yeah. Sometimes if is like two types of customers. Sometimes they have a CTO or a technical team in us and they just want to add the developers and they manage their tasks. Some customers it's about like they have a bigger requirement that we have to analyze and do. So then we have to manage the team and make sure that the quality is good and then we deliver to the customers or to type of projects that we do. So, uh, if they are managing it, they, they like talk to the people and they have a trial and they make sure that they, a preschool analyze their code and seeing the counties there. Then they give them usually a like we see like when a customer is happy with it but they don't want to change it so they can all the learning things and it's a big, many customers come to us and say like Kenya show that they stay back for a long term. That is something that uh, people always want in many technologies. Like if there is too much demand, people will switch jobs. Like if there are a lot of jobs in the market, people change their jobs any offered. But in I see a good thing that they stick where the customers can focus on their business. They can have the longterm team in place.
Michaela Light (16:09):
Joby John (16:09):
good for the companies. But for the people as well because we, they work on a single product for a long time. They understand the domain, the product.
Michaela Light (16:21):
Yeah. I mean that makes sense to me. I mean, I do, I try and keep the same developer on a project. It's a longterm project, uh, all the same team if it's a larger project, um, because there's so much knowledge transfer that has to be done. If you, when you bring a team new team member on, how do you deal with the knowledge transfer aspect as you use scale a team?
Joby John (16:47):
Uh, we usually like it if it's a internal, we make them work for like a month. Uh, sometimes the customer also have some sessions, make them understand the terminologies of the, uh, and the flow of the product. Everything's, some customers do that training from the side and technical side. We used to, uh, help them to work with us. Uh, the other team members who were working on the project for a long time, they never worked from home like a few weeks or a month to learn the application. That's how we do the knowledge transfer.
Michaela Light (17:26):
[inaudible]. Now I know you mentioned earlier, um, you know, you do kind of full stack things. What, what trends have you noticed on the front end? Um, development?
Joby John (17:39):
Yeah, it was a jQuery sometime back now with the react and the angular.
Michaela Light (17:46):
Why do you think that is?
Joby John (17:49):
Yeah. Because, uh, they can, uh, the friend and becoming dependent so they can make a change and see me and it makes, uh, the, uh, UAE more faster and scalable. I think that's, and we have like bigger customers now migrating completely to react dental. So that's a lot of book you have to do. They have to make the CF code also for that ready for that.
Michaela Light (18:17):
Right. Cause they still call fusion in the backend communicating through an API. Yeah. Cool to react or angular.
Joby John (18:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Some bigger application takes a lot of time for the change. And you know, we are working on all these two, three projects like that converting to the react front then. Hmm.
Michaela Light (18:38):
But what do you think motivates companies to, to want to have a, a react or angular front-end?
Joby John (18:46):
Uh, I didn't get that. Uh,
Michaela Light (18:48):
w why, why do you think, you know, uh, companies are looking to move to, to uh, uh, react front-end.
Joby John (18:58):
Yeah. One thing is that, uh, always, uh, some of the product companies they want, uh, the investors to look at the product is, uh, into the new technologies too. That is one reason they're always try to migrate because they are looking for investors and all. They want it to be the latest trends in the technologies and also the, uh, most of the, uh, they want it because for the managing the application mode on a better way and also, uh, it gives a lot of advantage for them. Like maintaining the application, changing the UIs, neuter. It is a neutral, a lot of hope to change that. I think that's one main reason they want to, uh, do the front end, change the front there.
Michaela Light (19:48):
You know, I, I sometimes think that, um, you know, half the things that happen in it, it's because it's a trend or you know, it's fashionable to use this particular technology. Have you noticed that?
Joby John (20:01):
Yeah. Yes. I have one customer, like, uh, he always talked to investors. Okay. So he was telling like, uh, we should change to buy 10 because uh, the investor have a feeling that confusion is a little bit all technology. Then when I met him in, uh, last time I told him about the advantages and the, the Adobe is doing a lot of new things in that and he was pretty convinced after the meeting that, uh, yeah, when I, and I said, what is the option if there is not confusion, what, what options you have in the market. So once that he was convinced and he said, next meeting, I will talk to customers. I will say about cultivation is not all that is it have the new worksheets and Adobe is putting a lot of the foot in that. So it's just a mindset like if we think like that, uh, like uh, we started hearing it when I started my first called vision project.
Joby John (20:59):
ColdFusion is dying and all, but it never happened in 10 years. We always grow from like a few mumbles to around day. Like I was able to build a 200 people company from using this technology. Mainly the customers are in [inaudible]. It's not, there are enough projects in the market. And if the companies see that there are good developers and we are, they can build for example, fusion, they will definitely choose contribution to build even new products. We even worked on some projects they in 16 and 17, they started out at the income. So that's a good thing.
Michaela Light (21:37):
That's great. So you're, you're finding uh, more and more customers every year using cold fusion.
Joby John (21:45):
Yes, as we add at least like one, few customers, two, three customers every year. But it was like when we started our business it was like you work with like 20, 30 customers in any year. Most of them are small customers, but uh, and some big customers we used to get. But now with more uh, bigger customers, we are, maybe we are around some bigger companies. So we are targeting that. There is also maybe everything. We are not interested in very small projects, but we used to do a lot in the starting and tall 1349.
Michaela Light (22:22):
Hmm. So now you're doing more enterprise level projects. Well, what about, do you ever come across customers who want to migrate away from cold fusion?
Joby John (22:34):
Yeah, and definitely like as I said, many customers, many customers plan with those. They want to migrate to Pite and Java. But um, uh, till this time, uh, no big customers migrated to any other platform. Even they, uh,
Michaela Light (22:52):
no one's migrated away from cold fusion.
Joby John (22:54):
Like, uh, they, the customers who work with us never migrate or they, some customers plan to customers. I would say they plan but they dropped the plan because they after like we have expertize in the [inaudible] and we, they, we had a serious discussion about migrating. But, uh, after analyzing the, uh, the, the cost associated with it and how it had to be reworked and all 10 day, they are not seriously thinking about change or no. And we have like a, they have a good member of competition team working for them. I think they are happy for now. Only thing they have a confusion if we want to scale up will, uh, we will, we are able to get that, uh, that was the condition. Most translations they were having. But once they solve that problem, they are happy with. Yes.
Michaela Light (23:50):
Yeah. I mean, cold fusion is more productive than most other languages and it certainly scales great. So yeah,
Joby John (23:58):
tough time for the developers. It takes less time for them to develop.
Michaela Light (24:04):
Yeah. So I mean I understand why people sometimes look at other languages cause maybe they're more fashionable. But as far as practicality goes, it's definitely more economical to code in cold fusion and it performs better as well. So, yeah. I mean I was talking to a CIO and a large organization and they, you know, tried to, they actually went ahead and, and started migrating to.net and after a year he pulled the plug on the project because the Dalton and developer said, Oh yes, it would all be completed in nine months. And like after a year they weren't even halfway done and they just went back to cold fusion and got it, got the new release done in three months.
Joby John (24:48):
Okay. Yeah. It happened with, of our customer, like it was a Java migration, but we were not doing the migration work. But, uh, I don't know. I think they have stopped that after some time.
Michaela Light (25:05):
Yeah. I mean, I, I think some of the people in the organization says suggest migrating away from cold fusion. Maybe miss, I understand how good cold fusion is. Old way have their own motivations for wanting to do it and other technology. Um, you know, because, you know, perhaps they're in charge of a.net team and they'd like to have extra work to do. Um, for example, I came across that in one case. Um, what, what about, we talked earlier about, you know, migrating from older versions of ColdFusion. Um, what, what about, um, you know, is everyone, every one of your customers migrating to Adobe ColdFusion 2016 or 2018 or do you get people going to rye lo or Lucy or,
Joby John (25:56):
uh, Railo and Lucee we were having some conversions conversion project. We worked in like a maybe eight to 10 projects in converting cultivation. Most of them were small projects mostly. And um, in the recent last two years, we didn't come across much projects where they want to convert. Mostly the projects that we worked with, very small applications. They want to convert you to like a radio compatible with trade to make it come back to the trade. So, and uh, but these days, last two, three years between find much projects into that. I think regular is not like the, the Lucy
Michaela Light (26:36):
yeah. Really loves being replaced by Luciana.
Joby John (26:39):
Yeah. But glossy, we didn't catch much Railo we worked in few projects in the pram, 13 to 16. There are some projects running and after that we didn't get much projects. Where there a second motion from confusion.
Michaela Light (26:56):
Mmm. And any idea why that is?
Joby John (27:00):
Uh, I think the, um, the custom, the bigger customers are not that much concerned about, uh, uh, I think they want some features that uh, that, uh, that don't work with railroads, something, something related to that PDF or something. Uh, our team says so they don't want to leave on one to change to Railo or any other platforms. And some, some, even some even discuss about a Railo trans, uh, like a transition. But they, after evaluating a few things, they have dropped plan, some, some items they, uh, that, that it won't work with. Fado then,
Michaela Light (27:45):
yeah. So there are some features that don't work the same. Um, I've certainly seen that in migrations. Um, and, and also, you know, if you, if you've got a bigger project, the cost of the cervical SaaS square is a smaller percentage of how much you spend on development anyway. So, and then, you know, there are certainly differences in performance and uh, yeah,
Joby John (28:10):
well my answer will be a key factor when people think about migrating to Lucy.
Michaela Light (28:17):
Yeah. I mean the only area or I've seen it be, um, useful is if it's a cloud based app and you know, they need it to scale up and down fast because the cold fusion 2018 licensing for cloud is not great in that you basically have to buy regular server licenses for as many instances as you think you, you might need. Um, so where of course Lucy being open source, you know, if you, if you need another server for two hours, you don't have to pay for another license for Lucy, uh, for that. So, so if you have a whole cluster of, of service, neural castrating scaling, then Lucy's butterfly, but hopefully cold fusion 2020, that's coming out later this year, they will have solved that licensing issue and have a metered licensing solution because, you know, um,
Joby John (29:12):
yeah, I remember one of our customers were telling about it because, uh, when they're using, when they're scaling, uh, the application to multiple, they need the license for that and it adds a lot of costs for them. So I remember someone telling about,
Michaela Light (29:31):
yeah, so looking forward to the cold fusion 2020 release
Joby John (29:35):
yeah. Helped solve that.
Michaela Light (29:38):
Yes, I think they will. And there's a lot of features. Um, you know, we saw, um, talk about in, in the CF summit. Um, now tell me a bit about the Adobe partnership program. I think you have some ideas on that.
Joby John (29:56):
Yeah. Adobe contacted us recently to join the, uh, the Adobe partnership program plan. Uh, they were discussing about it in the Confucian summit. So they are listing the partner companies who can do cold fusion work for their customers and listing it in the, uh, Adobe website. So they have some, uh, like, uh, they send us the details, uh, and we have to contribute, uh, to like blog, send everything to be an active partner like that. So they have, we have to work on some, uh, like um, materials, blogs and everything. And also like the certificate program also. They are giving some office anchors I guess seriously about, uh, thinking about that we are seriously taking it up and we will really want to be, uh, there'll be fun.
Michaela Light (30:50):
Yeah. I mean we, we contributed a lot to the Adobe, um, forum, um, and warned about cold fusion law. I think I'd encourage all about ColdFusion developers and um, teams to, you know, it's good to, to contribute either writing about it or social posting or making videos about it or doing demos or sharing success stories that you've done with ColdFusion because it helps to get the word out on the cold. Fusion is alive and successful and when more people do that. Um, you mentioned the cold fusion certification program that came out last year. Um, I know that came out in Las Vegas last year. Um, would you be interested if they had that in India or [inaudible]
Joby John (31:38):
it definitely will be interesting. That will help us in branding, like the developers [inaudible] certified to give. So like when we go to the customers, it gives us an advantage. You'll be definitely interested in, uh, the program. We hope that it will be available in the nest technical vision summit in India as well. So our developers can also take that.
Michaela Light (32:04):
Yeah, I mean, um, I, I hope someone that Adobe is listening and uh, I'll certainly give them a notch, but, um, you know, I, I'm trying to remember how many people were at CF summit, India or I want to say it was over 200, uh, 7,200 registered somewhere around that number. Okay. Um, so even if just, uh, some of those want to do a certification, I'm sure it would make sense to do that. And the must be thousands of ColdFusion developers across the whole of India cause I that they be event, um, was full and people couldn't register in the last few weeks. So it was probably more demand. Um, anything else on oncofusion before we go to the questions? I ask everyone who comes on the podcast.
Joby John (32:59):
Uh, yeah, it's uh, uh, that's it. Like you can go ahead with your questions.
Michaela Light (33:07):
Well, so the questions I ask everyone is, you know, first of all, why are you proud to use ColdFusion?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Joby John (33:14):
yeah. Confusion. Like when I come out of college and we started, we plan to start a business. The first customer that I got was in cold fusion. So Fran, they're like, uh, it helped us, helped me to grow the company to this level. So I had already to contribute with the technology and now also like, uh, we, we are doing major projects in [inaudible]. So you're proud that, uh, that technology helped us to become successful. So that's why we are proud to use ColdFusion.
Michaela Light (33:53):
And then you, we mentioned earlier that some people see ColdFusion is dying, which I think is totally not true. And, and you know, Caucasian sales by Adobe go up every year. Um, we see more people using cold fusion. But my question to you is, what would it take to make ColdFusion more alive this year?
Joby John (34:14):
Yeah. So what, uh, as I said, like, uh, we would, uh, Lao to, uh, hire more people in the Confucian then, uh, like it will help us, uh, uh, increase that dollar per base. We can cultivate more into more people coming to the confusion. Definitely that is the, the best thing we can, uh, uh, to do the CFO more alive is here. And another suggestion that I have is like, uh, bring more lateral, we should invite more Nanning and like of customers like people who are using enterprises who are using Confucian to Indian summit so they can connect with the partner companies, they can build more relationship. I think that will give more confidence to the companies to use ColdFusion on a larger scale, like a new new project day that gives more conference for them to use collaboration to build new. Uh, and another thing is like more, like I said, more college classes sincere and we expect that other, they can support us, hence, and that we have already give that solution. Like they can contribute something for that, like some seminars or some, something like that. And they can do in court. We can take the initiative of doing a go to the and to get ready to do that if some like some support from other, but it will give a lot of advantage.
Michaela Light (35:45):
I mean the must be thousands of colleges and universities in India. I'm guessing,
Joby John (35:49):
you know, there are a lot of, a lot of [inaudible] thing. It's more than any countries that India and college count some more in. Yeah. So [inaudible]
Michaela Light (35:58):
I mean, again, I just Googled it and it said the, there's like four more per 40,000 colleges and universities. Um, and it would be great if we could get, you know, some large number of those teaching Cove here. Um, on the same in the U S there's at least 4,000 colleges, universities, uh, two year colleges in the U S so, um, you know, again, it would be great if there were more classes in cold fusion there. I mean, I've looked for them. Um, um, and you know, I only found a handful. Um, so, um, if, if between Adobe and the community, uh, you know, companies like yours who are keen to, uh, have more graduates who love cold fusion and, uh, uh, I, I'm sure we can make something happen, um, to improve that. So, uh, we talked about CF summit, India to tell me what did you particularly enjoy about that?
Joby John (37:08):
Yeah, I'm like, the main thing is that we were able to meet a lot of people who work in cold fusion and also like, uh, uh, I have bring some team members to the summit and they're happy to see a good community in cultivation. And also when they see how CVS Adobe's about enrolling the, the, the product and everything, and it gives them more confidence to stick to like the technology and learn more about it. So that's a great initiative, I think. I like, we would love to bring more people to the summit last year as a
Michaela Light (37:44):
even more, yeah, you already had, I mean, they were wearing yellow shirts, I think, right?
Joby John (37:50):
Michaela Light (37:51):
yeah. Yellow tee shirts. I remember seeing seeing them. Um, well that would be great if you and other, uh, companies that focus on cold fusion could come to CF summer. So if, if people want to find you online, what are the best ways to do that?
Joby John (38:10):
Uh, there is like a tech person in for tech.com, um, our website, uh, like they can contact us through that or they can like, uh, through email Joe, we don't churn a tech person, but a.com you can contact them.
Michaela Light (38:27):
Cool. Well, we'll put all those in the show notes. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. Joby
Joby John (38:33):
yeah, thanks Michaela. Thanks for 19.
Michaela Light (38:37):